UNEP may be toast....

[Stuck in Seattle]

A Raggie poster that usually gets the scoop before anyone else is reporting that McKines isn't going to make it for the second semester. It's already been hinted that Lord Gillenwater may not make it either. If true is it time for Menzies to go?

The OOC performance of the WAC has been a huge letdown. I thought this would be the best WAC we'd seen in several years. It may be the worst this decade. Maybe I'm wrong and S4E sees some silver lining. I hope I'm mistaken.

[justintime]

Though that poster is often correct, he's no longer batting 1.000 on his insider proclamations. For the sake of NMSU basketball, I hope he's wrong this time as well. Menzies is still saying that both players will be suited up for the UTEP game on 12/13.

Regarding the WAC, it certainly seems to be on and off this year. Idaho destroyed #25 Portland last night, so clearly the potential is there, but no team has been able to consistently win against big and small time comp. I find it stunning that it's been a league wide phenomenon, especially since so many squads were returning key parts and had a lot of momentum last year.

[student4ever]

A Raggie poster that usually gets the scoop before anyone else is reporting that McKines isn't going to make it for the second semester. It's already been hinted that Lord Gillenwater may not make it either. If true is it time for Menzies to go?

The OOC performance of the WAC has been a huge letdown. I thought this would be the best WAC we'd seen in several years. It may be the worst this decade. Maybe I'm wrong and S4E sees some silver lining. I hope I'm mistaken.

Nevada and La. Tech still have a shot at an at-large. USU and Idaho are still borderline. Those are the four teams that still have a shot and realistically, they are relying on each other to do as well as possible both in and out of conference. Nobody else can get there.

Nevada can't lose another OOC game and can only afford to split in conference with La. Tech, USU, and/or Idaho. The strength of schedule is the only thing keeping Nevada in the hunt at this point.

La. Tech will only be an at-large if they win two out of three at Arizona, home against Murray St., and at Houston, without losing any other OOC games and split with the other three WAC schools.

USU can't lose another OOC game and probably needs a road win at one of the four main teams to offset the loss to Northeastern

Idaho can't lose another OOC game and probably needs a road win at one of the four main teams. They have two opportunities for decent road wins OOC left, but have to offset two bad losses.

The other WAC teams are going to play a huge role and a loss to any of them, on the road or not will likely keep any of the four from at-large status.

[oldballcoach]

Nevada getting an at large is a pipe dream considering how the tourney shafts mid majors lately.

[justintime]

Nevada and La. Tech still have a shot at an at-large. USU and Idaho are still borderline. Those are the four teams that still have a shot and realistically, they are relying on each other to do as well as possible both in and out of conference. Nobody else can get there.

Nevada can't lose another OOC game and can only afford to split in conference with La. Tech, USU, and/or Idaho. The strength of schedule is the only thing keeping Nevada in the hunt at this point.

La. Tech will only be an at-large if they win two out of three at Arizona, home against Murray St., and at Houston, without losing any other OOC games and split with the other three WAC schools.

USU can't lose another OOC game and probably needs a road win at one of the four main teams to offset the loss to Northeastern

Idaho can't lose another OOC game and probably needs a road win at one of the four main teams. They have two opportunities for decent road wins OOC left, but have to offset two bad losses.

The other WAC teams are going to play a huge role and a loss to any of them, on the road or not will likely keep any of the four from at-large status.

La Tech intrigues me. I'm going to be at the UA game, and I have a feeling it may be an upset. Arizona doesn't guard talented wings (like Kyle Gibson) really well.

I hope for the WAC's sake that the rest of the teams don't completely crap the bed the rest of the OOC. Even if you accept that you should beat Hawaii, it's better to beat a Hawaii that's 200 than 250+

[student4ever]

Nevada getting an at large is a pipe dream considering how the tourney shafts mid majors lately.

Yes, it may be a pipe dream, but the dream is still alive and with the talent we have I don't see any reason to throw in the towel at this early juncture.

Win every game of the upcoming home stand and Nevada will be 5-4 (Fresno-Pacific doesn't count). Beat BYU and the winner of the Tulsa/Nebraska game on neutral court and the Pack will be 7-4, with three top 100 victories and zero bad losses. Beat Portland, and that's 8-4, with four top 100 victories and zero bad losses. Split with the other three top 100 WAC teams, don't lose another one in conference and win the bracketbuster, and that's 22-7 with eight top 100 victories and zero bad losses going into the conference tournament. Win two games there and that's 24-8 with likely 9 top 100 victories and zero bad losses. That's better than any of the final at-large teams have had the past few years.

It's a tall hill to climb, but the Pack's schedule strength keeps the possibility alive. Boise St. will be tough to sweep, as will NMSU, SJSU, and FS. Hawaii may even prove difficult. Nevada has the skill and I like the way the team has played so far, even if I don't like the results.

[Stuck in Seattle]

Yes, it may be a pipe dream, but the dream is still alive and with the talent we have I don't see any reason to throw in the towel at this early juncture.

Win every game of the upcoming home stand and Nevada will be 5-4 (Fresno-Pacific doesn't count). Beat BYU and the winner of the Tulsa/Nebraska game on neutral court and the Pack will be 7-4, with three top 100 victories and zero bad losses. Beat Portland, and that's 8-4, with four top 100 victories and zero bad losses. Split with the other three top 100 WAC teams, don't lose another one in conference and win the bracketbuster, and that's 22-7 with eight top 100 victories and zero bad losses going into the conference tournament. Win two games there and that's 24-8 with likely 9 top 100 victories and zero bad losses. That's better than any of the final at-large teams have had the past few years.

It's a tall hill to climb, but the Pack's schedule strength keeps the possibility alive. Boise St. will be tough to sweep, as will NMSU, SJSU, and FS. Hawaii may even prove difficult. Nevada has the skill and I like the way the team has played so far, even if I don't like the results.

Thanks for the research. I was sure you'd be on top of it.;)

[student4ever]

La Tech intrigues me. I'm going to be at the UA game, and I have a feeling it may be an upset. Arizona doesn't guard talented wings (like Kyle Gibson) really well.

I hope for the WAC's sake that the rest of the teams don't completely crap the bed the rest of the OOC. Even if you accept that you should beat Hawaii, it's better to beat a Hawaii that's 200 than 250+

Yep, La. Tech's played a pretty easy schedule so far and the Arizona game will be their first big test. I wouldn't be a bit surprised by a La. Tech win.

The schedules still hold just enough for the WAC to make a little bit of a move, but we really can't afford bad losses. We need Hawaii to be top 200.

[oldballcoach]

I would buy into that argument but there is near zero chance they pull that off. One or two slip ups and there is no chance at an at large. We play a 7 man rotation, an at large bid is crazy talk. We need to start developing Cotton and Nyeko because that is the only chance to win the WAC tourney as well.

[Stuck in Seattle]

I would buy into that argument but there is near zero chance they pull that off. One or two slip ups and there is no chance at an at large. We play a 7 man rotation, an at large bid is crazy talk. We need to start developing Cotton and Nyeko because that is the only chance to win the WAC tourney as well.

We have the weak part of the schedule coming up. They'll get their minutes versus Fresno Pacific, South Dakota State and Wagner. But Nevada can't risk losses in those games just to get them minutes either IMHO. I'm hopeful that Olsen can help get Babbitt a little more rest and Dario can limit his fouls a little better too.

[oldballcoach]

You are taking the easy way out SiS. There will be no banners raised for this team, not when you are hanging on by a thread as it is and just one injury or suspension away from not even having a team! Not many teams can endure what happened this offseason and even be a winning team, much less dream for an at large. Time to put Kraemer on the bench in favor of Nyeko and cotton to reduce Armon's minutes. Cukic is playing well and hopefully he gets more burn too.

[chriswebb86]

You are taking the easy way out SiS. There will be no banners raised for this team, not when you are hanging on by a thread as it is and just one injury or suspension away from not even having a team! Not many teams can endure what happened this offseason and even be a winning team, much less dream for an at large. Time to put Kraemer on the bench in favor of Nyeko and cotton to reduce Armon's minutes. Cukic is playing well and hopefully he gets more burn too.

Put Ray on the Bench? He has been our best shooter of the Bench. He is the best shooting 3 point person on the team. There is no way I would put Nyeko in favor of him. I know there was an article a week or two back about confidence and how one small thing can really hurt a young player's confidence. So, Carter wants to get Nyeko in at the right time.

Also, I would like to see a little more of Giles, but until he starts shooting the ball better and not making dumb turnovers, he is a huge liability.

Finally, while I would like to see Luke and Armon get more rest in games, one thing that needs to be mentioned is that both of these guys are looking at playing in the NBA. So playing every other day or two at 35 to 40 minutes once to twice a week should be no big deal for them.

[Acoma]

I agree, bench Kreamer. I have said it several times that he is not all that great. He is not consistant, and he helped us to lose to Pacific. He had a turnover at the end that was critical, AND he should not have been the guy to shoot the 3 at the end! Get someone else a chance. At least Kraemer will have a degree, and we need a team.

[oldballcoach]

Put Ray on the Bench? He has been our best shooter of the Bench. He is the best shooting 3 point person on the team. There is no way I would put Nyeko in favor of him. I know there was an article a week or two back about confidence and how one small thing can really hurt a young player's confidence. So, Carter wants to get Nyeko in at the right time.

Also, I would like to see a little more of Giles, but until he starts shooting the ball better and not making dumb turnovers, he is a huge liability.

Finally, while I would like to see Luke and Armon get more rest in games, one thing that needs to be mentioned is that both of these guys are looking at playing in the NBA. So playing every other day or two at 35 to 40 minutes once to twice a week should be no big deal for them.


Again, where does that strategy leave you come the WAC tourney? If Cotton and Nyeko can't even get minutes on this team they need to start packing their bags.

[Posturedoc]

I agree, bench Kreamer. I have said it several times that he is not all that great. He is not consistant, and he helped us to lose to Pacific. He had a turnover at the end that was critical, AND he should not have been the guy to shoot the 3 at the end! Get someone else a chance. At least Kraemer will have a degree, and we need a team.

Bench the first man off the bench, one who Cwebb already stated has the best 3pt percentage on the team? Bench a kid who's played pretty darned solid basketball just because you think an unproven frosh and a sophomore who's had just enough time on the court this season to show he's not ready to contribute in a meaningful way until he gets his confidence back? I can think of only one word that describes your idea, coma. The word is dumb.

[student4ever]

bench the first man off the bench, one who cwebb already stated has the best 3pt percentage on the team? Bench a kid who's played pretty darned solid basketball just because you think an unproven frosh and a sophomore who's had just enough time on the court this season to show he's not ready to contribute in a meaningful way until he gets his confidence back? I can think of only one word that describes your idea, coma. The word is dumb.


+1

qft

[oldballcoach]

Bench the first man off the bench, one who Cwebb already stated has the best 3pt percentage on the team? Bench a kid who's played pretty darned solid basketball just because you think an unproven frosh and a sophomore who's had just enough time on the court this season to show he's not ready to contribute in a meaningful way until he gets his confidence back? I can think of only one word that describes your idea, coma. The word is dumb.


Not nearly as dumb as it is recruiting Nyeko in the first place then not playing him or redshirting him., assuming he does eventually play.

[Stuck in Seattle]

Wow, this thread took a strange turn. Can't say I agree with benching Ray and giving up on the season. That would also be unfair to the players like AJ and Babbitt that actually want to win games rather than treat this as a hopeless season best used for helping freshmen become better contributors.

[Posturedoc]

Again, where does that strategy leave you come the WAC tourney? If Cotton and Nyeko can't even get minutes on this team they need to start packing their bags.

So, playing Cotton, who already is obviously struggling with his confidence, and a frosh who Carter believes isn't ready for the pressure of close games is going to better prepare the team to succeed in the WAC tourney? How is the possibility of negatively affecting the confidence levels of the two players you are apparently counting on to carry the Pack at the end of the season going to pay off better than giving them PT when the pressure is going to be much, much less in the probable blow out wins coming up on the schedule?

[justintime]

Nevada is not the only WAC team with a notable cushion in their schedule in late December. It seems like the entire league scheduled their best games for the first 4 weeks of the season.

As for the debate going on here, I agree that Kraemer has a limited ceiling and that Nevada sorely needs more bench depth, but that's what those easy games are for, to develop players. You may think that some of the stuff RK does (or does not do) hurts the team's chances, but I assure you it would only get worse with an unprepared frosh in there. When they've earned minutes, they'll get them.

[Posturedoc]

Not nearly as dumb as it is recruiting Nyeko in the first place then not playing him or redshirting him., assuming he does eventually play.

Are you seriously maintaining that every frosh that comes into this program is or should be ready to play meaningful minutes from the moment he puts on a Pack uniform? That's a nice though, but it's pie in the sky, oldcoach. There are many, many quality D1 basketball players who simply are not ready to play when they first join a program. Nyeko is going to play this season, but he may simply not be as ready to go as some previous Nevada recruits.

[chriswebb86]

Again, where does that strategy leave you come the WAC tourney? If Cotton and Nyeko can't even get minutes on this team they need to start packing their bags.

So you bench a player and take minutes away from another that have earned the right to play?

While I would love to see Cotton and Nyeko play more, neither has done anything to warrant playing them more. I think you will see them get a lot more minutes over the next few games, but they better show something or they wont be being playing much this year.

[oldballcoach]

I think part of it is that Carter knows this team (due to circumstances) is a huge drop off from recent pack teams and he is afraid of how bad a 12-15 win season would look after taking over for Fox. He's tried to squeeze everything out of them he could so far and has still mostly come up short.

[chriswebb86]

I think part of it is that Carter knows this team (due to circumstances) is a huge drop off from recent pack teams and he is afraid of how bad a 12-15 win season would look after taking over for Fox. He's tried to squeeze everything out of them he could so far and has still mostly come up short.

I actually think he feels the team is better then past years. We just lack a lot of bench. That is what happens when you have players transfer and have I think 5 new players come into a team.

I am willing to bet that this team picks up about 22 to 24 wins this year. This team just got done with a very hard start to the season. It is a matter of time before UNLV is near Top 10. Everyone that has seen them play in person is extremely impressed. VCU has some big wins already. UNC is well UNC and we played them extremely well. Finally, we have like one win at UOP in something like our last 24 games. A loss there was no surprise. At this point I would not be too worried about this team.

[Posturedoc]

I think part of it is that Carter knows this team (due to circumstances) is a huge drop off from recent pack teams and he is afraid of how bad a 12-15 win season would look after taking over for Fox. He's tried to squeeze everything out of them he could so far and has still mostly come up short.

Your analytical skills continue to astound me, oldcoach. I have to admit that I pretty much disagree with almost every idea or observation you've made on this board. The one above finally prompted me to state exactly that. I think this team is better than Fox's last two teams and it isn't all that close. The fact that you believe a first year coach is afraid of a 12-15 win season making him look bad (as if his job would be in jeopardy were that to happen - not) further cements in my mind that you and I do not look at the same thing and come to remotely similar conclusions.

[oldballcoach]

Are you seriously maintaining that every frosh that comes into this program is or should be ready to play meaningful minutes from the moment he puts on a Pack uniform? That's a nice though, but it's pie in the sky, oldcoach. There are many, many quality D1 basketball players who simply are not ready to play when they first join a program. Nyeko is going to play this season, but he may simply not be as ready to go as some previous Nevada recruits.

Absolutely. Even as a frosh if your coach won't allow you to even see the court without fear of embarrassing everyone then either you have a bad player or a bad coach.

[chriswebb86]

Absolutely. Even as a frosh if your coach won't allow you to even see the court without fear of embarrassing everyone then either you have a bad player or a bad coach.

If you look across the country how many Freshmen play meaningful minutes throughout the Season? Probably a really small percentage. Now how many of these Freshmen play meaningful minutes at the start of the season, even less! So, I do not think what he is doing is sending the wrong message.

Next year, I could see Freshmen getting a lot of minutes especially if Luke and Armon leave. I think at this point we will have at least 6 new players on the team, and by the end start of the season we could be at 8 new players.

[justintime]

Absolutely. Even as a frosh if your coach won't allow you to even see the court without fear of embarrassing everyone then either you have a bad player or a bad coach.

Or some better, more experienced players in front of you.

[mustangs05]

McKines, and Gillenwater are on pace to become eligible. Both have finals this week, and Menzies said they should know more on Friday. NMSU did get some good news today. B.J West the 6'11 220 freshman PF/C has been cleared. B.J West plays a lot like Tyrone Nelson, so will be interesting to see how good West really is. I am not saying West is better than Nelson. I'm saying they play very similar.

[PACKFAN22]

If and I still say it is a big IF the 2 players for UNEP are still no longer available after this week, I would say the season is all but over unless they can find some continuity. All we've heard for some time is wait for them to be back, then we'll show what we're made of. Waiting to see what UNEP is made of, at the same time I think even one of these guys could have a positive impact but may not be enough to land up in the WAC rankings.

[PackBlue]

If and I still say it is a big IF the 2 players for UNEP are still no longer available after this week, I would say the season is all but over unless they can find some continuity. All we've heard for some time is wait for them to be back, then we'll show what we're made of. Waiting to see what UNEP is made of, at the same time I think even one of these guys could have a positive impact but may not be enough to land up in the WAC rankings.

NMSU is getting destroyed by teams, so if these two do not come back they are screwed. Even one will probably not put these guys into the top 5 of the WAC.

[BayArea Wolf]

I'm sure we'll be seeing more minutes from our young guys on this part of our 'soft' schedule. I'm sure it was said that Coach Carter didn't want to hurt these young kids confidence by playing them against Top 25 teams(ala UNLV, VCU, UNC).

[BayArea Wolf]

[QUOTE=oldballcoach;618]Absolutely. Even as a frosh if your coach won't allow you to even see the court without fear of embarrassing everyone then either you have a bad player or a bad coach.


I'm sure we'll be seeing more minutes from our young guys on this part of our 'soft' schedule. I'm sure it was said that Coach Carter didn't want to hurt these young kids confidence by playing them against Top 25 teams(ala UNLV, VCU, UNC).

[Acoma]

Bench the first man off the bench, one who Cwebb already stated has the best 3pt percentage on the team? Bench a kid who's played pretty darned solid basketball just because you think an unproven frosh and a sophomore who's had just enough time on the court this season to show he's not ready to contribute in a meaningful way until he gets his confidence back? I can think of only one word that describes your idea, coma. The word is dumb.

PDOC, you are the idiot, believing that Kraemer is any good. Seriosly, he has had a couple good games where he makes a difference. Every time he has a solid game, he has many bad ones. Give me a break about how great you think he is. If so, state the games and give me consistancy with it! So if you want to state my name with shame, maybe we state yours as Posterdick. Sound good? Now, I have not been one to attach, but if you want to act like an idiot, than please continue.

[oldballcoach]

PDOC, you are the idiot, believing that Kraemer is any good. Seriosly, he has had a couple good games where he makes a difference. Every time he has a solid game, he has many bad ones. Give me a break about how great you think he is. If so, state the games and give me consistancy with it! So if you want to state my name with shame, maybe we state yours as Posterdick. Sound good? Now, I have not been one to attach, but if you want to act like an idiot, than please continue.


good for nothing know it all POSTERDICK bwahahaha, priceless!

[PackNation]

good for nothing know it all POSTERDICK bwahahaha, priceless!

Pretty obvious from his very first post. Guess he couldn't hold it in any longer.

[PackNation]

PDOC, you are the idiot, believing that Kraemer is any good. Seriosly, he has had a couple good games where he makes a difference. Every time he has a solid game, he has many bad ones. Give me a break about how great you think he is. If so, state the games and give me consistancy with it! So if you want to state my name with shame, maybe we state yours as Posterdick. Sound good? Now, I have not been one to attach, but if you want to act like an idiot, than please continue.

Let me get this right, Acoma. There is no question in your mind you know more about basketball, and in particular this Pack roster, than Coach Carter?

[Nosebleed]

I can't believe how ridiculous this link has gotten. I agree with Coach Carter's decisions about the rotation off the bench. Bench Ray and put in whom? Look, we ended up for whatever reason short-handed this year. Once we get Olsen, what you see is what you get. I question playing Patrick, but Carter has addressed it and I have to believe him. Our startiong five match up respectfully with the nation's best, the bench is getting better, and like has been mentioned, we are coming into a weaker part of our schedule, (and finally some damn home games!). I think we will contend for the WAC title, and I believe that is all we can hope for for NCAA tourney visit.

Rick

[renowiggum]

I agree, bench Kreamer. I have said it several times that he is not all that great. He is not consistant, and he helped us to lose to Pacific. He had a turnover at the end that was critical, AND he should not have been the guy to shoot the 3 at the end! Get someone else a chance...

You mean like how Luke and Armon both had crucial misses that allowed Pacific to reclaim the lead? Luke, on a long but open pull up jumper, and Armon on a layup in the lane.

[battle.borne]

Yes, it may be a pipe dream, but the dream is still alive and with the talent we have I don't see any reason to throw in the towel at this early juncture.



Certainly not time to throw in any towels but going 7 deep isn't what tourney teams are made of. Not having a full compliment of players will cost this team 2 or 3 losses in conference which they should have not lost, but do to exhaustion, they did.

[PACKFAN22]

Certainly not time to throw in any towels but going 7 deep isn't what tourney teams are made of. Not having a full compliment of players will cost this team 2 or 3 losses in conference which they should have not lost, but do to exhaustion, they did.

I think if we start developing our bench over the next few games, we may be able to get to 8 deep, possibly 9 but I doubt it. Even still a deep run at that level will not be possible unless we develop some bench depth. Let's be honest we really do not know what we have there. Marko has come on as of late, and been giving good minutes, so you could argue we are 7.5 players deep with our starting 5, Kraemer, Giles (.75) and Cukic (.75). I could easily see us over the next few games getting deeper on the bench with some development by Nyeko, Cukic's continued development, and adding Olson to the mix once he is eligible in a couple weeks.

[oldballcoach]

Your analytical skills continue to astound me, oldcoach. I have to admit that I pretty much disagree with almost every idea or observation you've made on this board. The one above finally prompted me to state exactly that. I think this team is better than Fox's last two teams and it isn't all that close. The fact that you believe a first year coach is afraid of a 12-15 win season making him look bad (as if his job would be in jeopardy were that to happen - not) further cements in my mind that you and I do not look at the same thing and come to remotely similar conclusions.


I guess that fancy posture degree requires your nose held above eye level as well? You can take the side of this team being the greatest ever and winning 24 games ....but you have to be the biggest homer alive or you are whacked out on meds.

[Posturedoc]

PDOC, you are the idiot, believing that Kraemer is any good. Seriosly, he has had a couple good games where he makes a difference. Every time he has a solid game, he has many bad ones. Give me a break about how great you think he is. If so, state the games and give me consistancy with it! So if you want to state my name with shame, maybe we state yours as Posterdick. Sound good? Now, I have not been one to attach, but if you want to act like an idiot, than please continue.

I'm not sure where your righteous indignation comes from, coma. I've been calling you that for months on the boards - I just like to shorten board handles - without any pre-conceived ideas as to your mental state, so I'm at a loss as to why you're upset about it now unless you're overly sensitive because I called your idea 'dumb' - not you, just your idea.

As to your idea and my 'attach' of it, let's just say that I've developed a low tolerance on these boards for poorly supported arguments and particularly dumb ideas. This one of yours falls into both categories as it's a dumb idea and you offer exactly zero support for your position. It's not up to me to defend my position on Kraemer with stats, he represents the current substitution reality on the team. It's up to you to defend your poorly thought out idea for change by offering up some facts in support of it - I don't think you can.

Finally, if you're going to attempt to make fun of my handle by changing a few letters, getting the spelling correct is essential. My handle is Posturedoc, as in I work on correcting my patients' postures. It's not Posterdoc, as in I like seeing a poster of myself papered on the dormroom walls of Nevada students, especially not my stick and berries.

[thehowling]

Transitory argument I know, but the Sweet 16 team went 8 deep (this one goes 7), and that team also started the year 2-3 (this one is 2-4 with all losses coming on the road).

Tell Jibsquirt to shove it up his :eek:

[oldballcoach]

to even compare a team with Fazekas, Kemp, Sessions, Charlo, Shiloh,Bell and LB to this one is pure nonsense. To say this team is better...come on man.

[Posturedoc]

to even compare a team with Fazekas, Kemp, Sessions, Charlo, Shiloh,Bell and LB to this one is pure nonsense. To say this team is better...come on man.

Look, jibscout, if you were actually a fan of Nevada sports instead of just a troll here stirring up trouble (heck, most trolls should be able to do simple math) you would would be able to accurately count backward two seasons and know that all of those names you mentioned save Kemp and LB finished their Nevada careers three seasons (not including this season) ago.

Why are you here except to stir up trouble?

[medpackfan]

to even compare a team with Fazekas, Kemp, Sessions, Charlo, Shiloh,Bell and LB to this one is pure nonsense. To say this team is better...come on man.

Lets compare the 03/04 sweet 16 team to this team position by position keeping in mind that it is early. That team also started out 2-3.

PG: Okeson vs. A. Johnson...I'd give the edge to Johnson
SG: Hill-Thomas vs. Fields...draw, both are/were inconsistent but could go off at any time
SF/SG: Snyder vs. Shaw...Snyder hands down
F: Pinkney vs. Hunt...Pinkney, Hunt needs to develop more of a post game
F: Fazekas vs. Babbitt...Babbitt, at that point in time Fazekas wasn't as dominant as Babbitt is now

Bench:
Kemp vs. Giles...Kemp, but by a slim margin, kemp wasn't throwing up crazy numbers yet
J. Washington vs. Kraemer...This one is the toughest...Kraemers a better shooter, but Washington brought toughness
S. Paul vs. Cukic...I really feel like this is a draw and by the end of the season Cukic will surpass Paul

Thats it folks, the pack team in 03-04 pretty much only played that lineup in the NCAA tourney that lead to the sweet 16. I think the important thing to remember is that Trent also developed the bench throughout the season and we didn't start off with depth. As you can see above the starters are virtually a draw. That team finished the regular season 20-8 and WAC 13-5. So remember all of this before you throw this team under the bus.

[medpackfan]

Just my 2 cents here...but i think we finish 21-8 possibly 22 depending on the bracketbuster and 13-3 in conference. The conference losses will be to Utah St, La Tech, and Idaho on the road. The other conference loss will come in the LV tourney, where we will likely go 1-1.

[justintime]

Going 8 or 9 deep is nice, but not necessary for a tournament run. Sure, teams with 7 rotation players are on the razor's edge regarding injury, but I think a lot more is determined by how good those first 6 or 7 are than by how bad the last 5 are.

[nvspuds]

St Mary's played at altitude they other day in Logan and won a game where they had 7 guys play. One of those guys only got 6 or 7 minutes and the other sub 19. Teams rarely need more than 8 but it is a nice luxury to have. To me, the Pack is getting decent production from Kraemer and Cukic. If Giles can get some confidence and Nyeko some minutes they could certainly prove to be very nice complementary pieces by conference time. Add in Olsen, who Carter has said will be a big help and things don't look so bleak. The next four games will allow Carter a chance to get time for his subs. I think the bench will be fine, especially in a conference that is full of teams with a short bench.

[slowhiteguy]

we need to win the conf tourney on our own floor and let the other guys worry about an at large.

would it surprise anyone if the wac was a one bid league this year?