If parents would shut little Mercedes the ...

[wolf_chatter]

F UP!!!

Then they wouldn't get banned.

Listen here f-wad! I didn't come to the restaraunt to hear your stupid, ugly, ill-mannered little, booger eater cry the whole time. Here's a thought, let go of your 3rd Panty Dropper put a tit in the kids mouth and go the F home!

http://shine.yahoo.com/channel/parenting/message-to-parents-getting-louder-no-screaming-babies-allowed-2388887/

:p:p

[backsthepack]

Kids are fine on their own, leave them at home. I was often left alone, or free to wander, and turned out just fine.

[Posturedoc]

Kids are fine on their own, leave them at home. I was often left alone, or free to wander, and turned out just fine.

You're kidding, right? At what age do you suggest leaving kids at home is appropriate, oh grand poobah of child-rearing?

[backsthepack]

4? 5? They can make a sandwich at that point easily if they're hungry. The only reason they don't is because why make something yourself, when mommy and daddy will make it for you? They already want to help out in the kitchen.

[Posturedoc]

4? 5? They can make a sandwich at that point easily if they're hungry. The only reason they don't is because why make something yourself, when mommy and daddy will make it for you? They already want to help out in the kitchen.

Hmm. You've made quite a few observations and floated some ideas on these forums that have made me scratch my head in the past, btp, but this one is likely the most uninformed. Aside from the fact that you, as a parent, would almost certainly land in jail and that you would have your child placed in the care of others if the authorities became aware that you routinely (probably only a stern warning and belief that you were unfit to parent if you were caught after doing it only once) left your four or five year old at home alone to go out to dinner, you appear to have no concept of how unlikely it is for any child of that age to be able to care for him/herself. If your parents did that to you and you somehow survived or didn't burn down the house, you and they were very lucky.

[PACKFAN22]

Let's see, when I was about 6 or 7 (1986-1987) my mom and dad would leave my sister and I home alone for up to an hour or so. That stretched as we grew up, but they always made sure there was going to be a neighbor or someone close by that we could go to if something happened. By the time I was 10 we were home alone by ourselves from the time we got home from school until my mom got home at 5.

So what BTP is saying is a little extreme, it wasn't uncommon, and I turned out OK.

[thevoice]

As a new parent of a 2 1/2 year old, I won't tolerate my kid throwing a fit anywhere in public. If he doesn't quiet down, and quickly, we pick up and head out. We remember what it was like when we didn't have kids. We didn't want to put up with their screaming kid, so why should others have to put up with ours. It all boils down to respect for others. Kids are going to fuss a little bit while out and about. That has to be expected and accepted to a point. Full blown tantrums cannot be tolerated.

[Posturedoc]

Let's see, when I was about 6 or 7 (1986-1987) my mom and dad would leave my sister and I home alone for up to an hour or so. That stretched as we grew up, but they always made sure there was going to be a neighbor or someone close by that we could go to if something happened. By the time I was 10 we were home alone by ourselves from the time we got home from school until my mom got home at 5.

So what BTP is saying is a little extreme, it wasn't uncommon, and I turned out OK.

Looks like your parents did a good job of making sure things were going to be as safe for you and your sister as possible, P-22 but, with respect, your experience and btp's experience are anecdotal and valid only to your personal situations. I'm happy for you and your families that things turned out well.------Hmmm, as I re-read those first two sentences, they come off as condescending. That's not my intent, so please bear that in mind.

When parents leave younger children at home alone, the risk for those children increases. Take a look at suggestions by professional organizations (here is one) (http://www.latchkey-kids.com/latchkey-kids-age-limits.htm) dedicated to child welfare and safety. The consensus recommendation is 12 year of age, but it can change depending on the maturity level of the child. A few states have laws regarding the minimum age a child can legally be left alone - the youngest is 8, but most settle at 12 - however most states don't set a legal limit. After a cursory search, I didn't find any studies about age vs risk in children left alone, but some must exist somewhere.

Here is an interesting NY Times article (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/14/nyregion/14alone.html) on the subject for those who just can't get enough of this debate. The bottom line seems to be that there isn't really one recipe for success on this subject and that different parents have different ideas about when it's time to leave their kids home alone, if they even feel they have a choice in the matter, since for some it boils down to choosing between leaving a kid alone or losing their job and suffering the consequences of that loss.

Personally, I'm glad my kids are past the age where my wife and I agonize about it.

[Darth Kaepernick]

As a new parent of a 2 1/2 year old, I won't tolerate my kid throwing a fit anywhere in public. If he doesn't quiet down, and quickly, we pick up and head out. We remember what it was like when we didn't have kids. We didn't want to put up with their screaming kid, so why should others have to put up with ours. It all boils down to respect for others. Kids are going to fuss a little bit while out and about. That has to be expected and accepted to a point. Full blown tantrums cannot be tolerated.

+1,000,000 and God bless you.

It's not an issue that people bring their kids out. It's an issue that they don't promptly put an end to bad behavior when it begins. So often people think that a person like myself "doesn't like kids" or "is impatient because he can't understand it's just kids being kids". Not true at all. I think kids are a lot of fun and enjoy meeting kids and talking to them. I just don't like it when I'm trying to do something that is better done when the atmosphere is quiet (IE a movie, dinner, an airplane flight, etc) and I have already paid my own money only to have the experience ruined by someone who is behaving in a manner that puts the focus or center of attention of all in the room onto them rather than what it is I paid for and was trying to enjoy.

As an adult who does not have children, I bet I've complimented as many people on how well behaved their kids are as I have made comments or given dirty looks to people who's kids are poorly behaved.

I think there are two problems here. The first, is that I think that authors last statement "Or are more parents who bring their kids with them everywhere tuned out to how their sometimes noisy offspring may be affecting those around them?" hits it right on the money. thevoice's statement that I highlighted is one that is in the minority it seems these days.

I think the second problem with the whole issue of kids out in public is this:

What if I got drunk and started getting loud in a public place? Sort of in that state of mind where I don't realize how much my behavior is affectiong everyone else. Well, it's my wife's job to tell me to shut up first and if I don't stop, I expect her to drag me out of there immediatly. And if she doesn't, I expect an employee of whatever business I am visiting to ask me to be quiet or leave. Followed closely after that by a management person who is going to ask me to leave or they will get a bouncer to throw me out and call the police. That's the "chain of command" and I don't think anyone reading this would disagree with that.

If a kid starts getting loud in a public place, it's their parents job to tell them to shut up first and if they don't stop, they should drag the child out of there immediatly. But this is where the problem occurs. If they don't handle it, the next person on the list who should handle it (say a worker asking them to quite their child or they will be asked to leave) often times can't handle it because society has made it taboo for any adult to scold a child that isn't their own. And people also don't like for someone to scold a parent for not properly handling their child. Parents can get fierce when it comes to their children and it makes for an awkward and often times confrontational situation when someone critisizes their childs behavior or the lack of action being taken by the parent. The "chain of command" that I eluded to before is not clear in our society when it comes to children, after the parent that is.

It would be nice if more clear boundaries were established when it comes to loud children in public places.

[Posturedoc]

+1,000,000 and God bless you.

It's not an issue that people bring their kids out. It's an issue that they don't promptly put an end to bad behavior when it begins. So often people think that a person like myself "doesn't like kids" or "is impatient because he can't understand it's just kids being kids". Not true at all. I think kids are a lot of fun and enjoy meeting kids and talking to them. I just don't like it when I'm trying to do something that is better done when the atmosphere is quiet (IE a movie, dinner, an airplane flight, etc) and I have already paid my own money only to have the experience ruined by someone who is behaving in a manner that puts the focus or center of attention of all in the room onto them rather than what it is I paid for and was trying to enjoy.

As an adult who does not have children, I bet I've complimented as many people on how well behaved their kids are as I have made comments or given dirty looks to people who's kids are poorly behaved.

I think there are two problems here. The first, is that I think that authors last statement "Or are more parents who bring their kids with them everywhere tuned out to how their sometimes noisy offspring may be affecting those around them?" hits it right on the money. thevoice's statement that I highlighted is one that is in the minority it seems these days.

I think the second problem with the whole issue of kids out in public is this:

What if I got drunk and started getting loud in a public place? Sort of in that state of mind where I don't realize how much my behavior is affectiong everyone else. Well, it's my wife's job to tell me to shut up first and if I don't stop, I expect her to drag me out of there immediatly. And if she doesn't, I expect an employee of whatever business I am visiting to ask me to be quiet or leave. Followed closely after that by a management person who is going to ask me to leave or they will get a bouncer to throw me out and call the police. That's the "chain of command" and I don't think anyone reading this would disagree with that.

If a kid starts getting loud in a public place, it's their parents job to tell them to shut up first and if they don't stop, they should drag the child out of there immediatly. But this is where the problem occurs. If they don't handle it, the next person on the list who should handle it (say a worker asking them to quite their child or they will be asked to leave) often times can't handle it because society has made it taboo for any adult to scold a child that isn't their own. And people also don't like for someone to scold a parent for not properly handling their child. Parents can get fierce when it comes to their children and it makes for an awkward and often times confrontational situation when someone critisizes their childs behavior or the lack of action being taken by the parent. The "chain of command" that I eluded to before is not clear in our society when it comes to children, after the parent that is.

It would be nice if more clear boundaries were established when it comes to loud children in public places.

I think it starts and ends with the parents, Darth. It shouldn't be anybody's business to discipline or direct a child while that child's parents are present. If the parents can't or won't handle their loud child, they should be asked to leave the establishment. If they won't do anything about the kid and won't leave, they should be removed. If that means calling the authorities to get it done, then call 'em. What else can you do at that point with stupid parents?

[Darth Kaepernick]

You can't do anything and I agree with you. It is all about the parents really. I come to the tailgater the last two weeks and I see PIB and Chatter and Chops and some others with their kids there and their kids are very very well behaved. More so than their parents even.:p

I think businesses should just deal with the parents right away like you suggest. However, I can see why this often doesn't happen because many businesses don't want bad publicity or a public image that they aren't family friendly.

They know that what will happen is that there is a good chance if the people are rude enough to let their kid act up and ruin everyone else's time, that family probably get confrontational with their staff. Or they will leave and then go to the playground or church on Sunday or where ever and tell anyone and everyone that will listen how, "my angle wasn't even being that loud and they were so intollerant. They embarassed us and they don't like kids and blah blah blah". And now there's a risk of losing business.

[Nosebleed]

Kudos to the business for posting the sign. Some people are so inconsiderate of others around them that are also trying to enjoy their evening out. Parents with kids can always go to chucky cheese or other more family friendly establishments. Yeah, I had kids and we taught them manners. If they did not behave we left the restaurant. And I did not feel my right to enjoy an evening out with my family overruled others rights to enjoy the same thing, sans a screaming kid.

Rick

[PackBlue]

as a parent of two daughters 2 and 5 we have always gone out to dinner with our children. First is we usually hit the restaurant at an earlier hour, we make sure that the kids are well behaved, and we tip the waitstaff well. We also take the kids to more family friendly places like Applebees and TGIFridays.

By starting our kids off early at restarurants early they are acclimated and much easier to handle at their young ages now.

[blue grass wolf]

Kids misbehaving is why they put bathrooms in resturants..... It all comes down to respect.