Great Article by Hinxman on a Sunday Morning..

[newpackcity]

About what it takes to be like Boise State, I've been waiting for someone to write this article (http://www.rgj.com/article/20091220/SPORTS06/912200369/1018/SPORTS) and it was finally done. I hope the people in Reno read it and pay attention to it, there's no reason we can't be like Boise.

[LoneWolf]

I have not lived in Reno for 20+ years. I used to go to every football game. What caused the following...what has really changed here? What demographics changed?

From the RGJ article:
"Football used to be the social event of the week (in Reno). It's not right now, and that's because the demographics have changed dramatically, and I mean dramatically. The interest level ... has to be a combination of both the university -- their publicity and the marketing of the program -- and then the community buying into it."

Thanks.

[newpackcity]

I've lived in Reno for a combined 9 months of my life, but used to travel to games all the time when I was a kid and I'm still a season ticket holder. Anyways, I remember when Ault left in the mid-90's and handed Tis a good program with 100% community backing, what changed more than anything was the putrid years of Tormey and Tis. Ault's fighting to get it back to where it was when he left, but isn't there just yet.

[Blueblood]

I've lived in Reno for a combined 9 months of my life, but used to travel to games all the time when I was a kid and I'm still a season ticket holder. Anyways, I remember when Ault left in the mid-90's and handed Tis a good program with 100% community backing, what changed more than anything was the putrid years of Tormey and Tis. Ault's fighting to get it back to where it was when he left, but isn't there just yet.

I absolutely believe had Ault not left to become AD we would be at the level Boise is now. I think we're one good defensive coordinator away from getting over this hill, hopefully we can find the right one out of those 30+ applicants this time.

[newpackcity]

I absolutely believe had Ault not left to become AD we would be at the level Boise is now. I think we're one good defensive coordinator away from getting over this hill, hopefully we can find the right one out of those 30+ applicants this time.


I agree, I remember going to games when you the Pack were playing a far worse team and you knew they'd blow him out the roof but Mackay was packed...We've never really won in Boise, but we used to be great against them at home..

[Posturedoc]

I have not lived in Reno for 20+ years. I used to go to every football game. What caused the following...what has really changed here? What demographics changed?

From the RGJ article:
"Football used to be the social event of the week (in Reno). It's not right now, and that's because the demographics have changed dramatically, and I mean dramatically. The interest level ... has to be a combination of both the university -- their publicity and the marketing of the program -- and then the community buying into it."

Thanks.

When a writer makes a statement like Hinxman's statement about Reno's demographics changing "dramatically", I expect them to back up. I'm not sure that's an accurate statement from Hinxman. I don't have demographic figures in hand, but I've more or less lived in Reno for 43 of my 45 years and I pay attention, so I'm going to give my own half-assed opinion on demographics in the area, just like it appears Hinxman did.

If the demographics have changed "dramatically" for northern Nevada in the past 20 years, the only dramatic changes I see is in the huge increase in the total population (a net positive, one would think) and the large increase in the Hispanic population (perhaps not as geared toward football as the Anglo and Black population), which is not unique to Reno so I don't know if you can use that change as a negative for Nevada football unless you are going to attach it to every school located in an area where the Hispanic population has grown substantially, meaning a whole bunch of them. Any other dramatic change I can deduce would have to be a net positive.

There are a lot more Nevada grads locally than there were 20 years ago.

The casino industry in Reno has been stagnant at best in the past 20 years, which I see as a positive as far as transiency is concerned as that industry is almost singularly responsible for the transient population label applied to this area. I wonder just how transient Reno is these days? Casino pay is also relatively crappy in Reno, so having a smaller percentage of the total population earning comparatively meager wages would be a net positive.

I'm fairly certain most job growth in the region in the past 20 years has been with jobs that pay higher wages on average than those in the region before that time, so I also view that as a net positive demographically.

Perhaps Hinxman is using figures from the past year or two (since the economic downturn) in his comparison with 20 years ago, which are bound to reflect poorly given how hard hit the region and state are. Since Reno and Nevada have fared among the worst in the nation in that time, it would suggest some dramatic changes have occurred, but I question if that's a fair way to parse those numbers. If this recession sticks around locally for another few years, then it's accurate, if not, then it's not really reflective of the average demographics of the area in the past 20 years. I imagine that there is more to this that but it's what immediately came to mind when I read the article.

[student4ever]

Hey, Pdoc, not to ruin a perfectly good rant, but I'm pretty sure the quote came from Ault and isn't Hinxman's own personal thoughts.

[Posturedoc]

Hey, Pdoc, not to ruin a perfectly good rant, but I'm pretty sure the quote came from Ault and isn't Hinxman's own personal thoughts.

You're right, damnit! I expect CA to cite his research next time he makes a comment like that. Though I rarely do so, I disagree with his opinion (obviously) until I somebody actually shows my lazy butt statistics that counter the points I made in my other post.

[Wolf Pack Jack]

I absolutely believe had Ault not left to become AD we would be at the level Boise is now. I think we're one good defensive coordinator away from getting over this hill, hopefully we can find the right one out of those 30+ applicants this time.

Yes. As it appears now, the biggest mistake he ever made was leaving to soon.

Myself and I'm sure many others, had every reason to beleive Tis would continue that level of play. Looked like a good hire at the time.

We need to make a good DC hire coming up.

IMO, the fans are still out there, they just need more of a reason to come back I guess. I hope the value of winning some of these OOC and bowl games isn't being over looked. I'm starting to think that's what its going to take. Beating a Boise TT Missou or ND or at least 3 of 4 of your OOC games no matter who they are may go further than only beating teams 3 thu 9 in the WAC and UNLV. I don't think its too far fetched to blame some of the attendance woes this year on the showing in South Bend and Fort Collins this year. That was not good. The Pack actually started off the year losing four in a row going back to the bowl game last year (yet another bowl loss).

The article also points out that winning a lot of games puts butts in the seats and gets the attention of better recruits. Boise is a perfect example of it doesn't matter who you beat. 11-0 records are great for recruiting, which equals knocking off a big boy once in awhile.

[Stuck in Seattle]

I couldn't even finish the article.

Boise had great attendance and a loyal following 25 years ago. They were bringing 4,000 fans to Reno in the 80's even when they were more likely to lose than win. Nevada and Idaho were the more dominant WAC teams at the time yet they still sold out their stadium IIRC. Boise football has been a tradition with great backing since at least the 70s if you believe what Boise fans have to say and in this case I do as I've been watching Pack games for over 30 years and they've ALWAYS had great support.

Part of this is the demographic differences. Idaho is more like Nebraska than Nevada. And like Nebraska their football team is in their blood and a source of community pride from childhood on. It has been that way for decades.

They too have experience a population boom like Reno's, but it's been during this great run they've had making it attractive for new residents to jump on the bandwagon.

Conversely, Nevada's transient, gaming dominated culture wasn't as conducive to the level of support enjoyed by Boise. A significant percentage of the population worked Saturdays and having worked in the industry I can say that casino workers were not big Pack fans in general. At least not the ones out on the casino floor. They didn't go to the school, they didn't attend games in big numbers and while they had passing interest they were nothing like the loyal fans you'd find in a city like Boise. I'd show up Saturday night with the left side of my face sunburned from sitting in the south end zone and we'd all get a laugh, but few other employees that worked in my area would attend the games even during the glory days.

But there was still a great following and atmosphere at the games. I'd love to see some attendance figures for the late 80s and early 90s, because I don't think the attendance was quite as good for some of the lesser opponents as some people believe, but I could be wrong. But still the base of fans developed in the 80s and early 90s was substantial.

But Nevada experience a big boom in population in the late 90s and 00s, just like Boise. At the same time, the Pack FB program had completely fallen apart and the basketball team basically stunk. The population grew by at least 30% during a time when the football team was ridiculed culminating with the felons under the Tormey era. At the same time the Ault haters were at work. These new locals were not jumping on the bandwagon, quite the opposite. Many of the "hip" people were criticizing the team and the AD and many of the people with whom I used to attend games even became Ault haters and stopped paying any attention to the Pack. We missed the boat by sucking at the worst possible time.

During the duration of the dominating run by Boise their population has grown by over 30%. These new residents had every reason in the world to jump on the bandwagon and they have. If Nevada ever has a run like Boise's the fans will climb out of the woodwork, facilities will be improved etcetera. But building a new stadium isn't going to create a new generation of fans. That's the cart before the horse. And I don't think we'll ever see the level of support Boise has. Look at the basketball team. Even when we're great we get 3,000 no shows for lesser opponents. Even when we're good and featuring multiple local players we see season ticket sales fall way off and STILL get 3,000 no shows.

It will take 10 years of consistent success along with some big wins and national attention to begin to get the fan base where we'd like it to be. As we've seen with the basketball team. One false step can lead to thousands jumping off the bandwagon.

Boise's not like that when it comes to the football team. They are with basketball though. Perhaps as Reno becomes a more stable community with more social cohesion and long term residents we'll see better support for the team. But it won't happen fast and it will have to be sustained for quite a while for it to stick I'm afraid.