Just got back from two days of work in Vegas and....

[Nevadan]

...I know gaming revenues are way down and occupancy is way down, but you wouldn't know it. I spent the part of the evening Monday walking on the strip and in and out of the various properties and there were a lot of people out and about. The sidewalks were crowded and the casino floors were buzzing beehives. I guess the difference is that there aren't the average Vegas visitor ready, willing and ABLE to burn his/her home equity on the tables.:(

[Stuck in Seattle]

...I know gaming revenues are way down and occupancy is way down, but you wouldn't know it. I spent the part of the evening Monday walking on the strip and in and out of the various properties and there were a lot of people out and about. The sidewalks were crowded and the casino floors were buzzing beehives. I guess the difference is that there aren't the average Vegas visitor ready, willing and ABLE to burn his/her home equity on the tables.:(
The Strip is fine. I was looking at an article on gaming revenues and the strip was actually showing year to year gains and IIRC it only dropped about 5% during the worst of the crash. But away from the strip it's as bad as Reno, or worse, for the same reasons. A friend of mine was just down in Vegas for a medical conference and talked about the closing of the Ritz and how the other hotel in that area had only 20 rooms booked. The Jack Nicklaus designed golf course out at the lake (not sure the name) was shut down and overgrown. And these are new properties that cost many tens of millions to open. The tourists are coming back in Vegas, it's the locals joints and downtown that are on the ropes from what I've heard.

[thehowling]

Went to a presentation the other night by Steve Leuthold. Very informative and encouraging. Pointed out that people in Nevada aren't seeing the signs of the economic recovery like those in the rest of the country because so much of our economy is based on service and real estate. The recovery is not being led by the consumer it's largely being led by the manufacturing sector in the mid-west.

I'll try to post more later, they had some really amazing statistics.

[battle.borne]

...I know gaming revenues are way down and occupancy is way down, but you wouldn't know it. I spent the part of the evening Monday walking on the strip and in and out of the various properties and there were a lot of people out and about. The sidewalks were crowded and the casino floors were buzzing beehives. I guess the difference is that there aren't the average Vegas visitor ready, willing and ABLE to burn his/her home equity on the tables.:(

What was your first impressive of City Center? I think the Aria is an amazing edition to the Strip but the logistics of getting to the property via car or on foot are a bit irritating.

[Nevadan]

What was your first impressive of City Center? I think the Aria is an amazing edition to the Strip but the logistics of getting to the property via car or on foot are a bit irritating.

I didn't have a bunch of time to spend, but we did dip our big toe into the Aria and it is quite a place. When there's been a little time between my visits, there is a shock factor with the scale of the place and the growth in the sophistication of it all. When I was down last, City Center was still in the steel and concrete phases of the construction. With it up and, while not filled, in operation, it provided that shock again. If the place ever reaches full occupancy with some of the vendor locations, the shopping and entertainment will carry the whole city into the realm of a truly international city...as opposed to a really impressive national city.

[Nevadan]

The Strip is fine. I was looking at an article on gaming revenues and the strip was actually showing year to year gains and IIRC it only dropped about 5% during the worst of the crash. But away from the strip it's as bad as Reno, or worse, for the same reasons. A friend of mine was just down in Vegas for a medical conference and talked about the closing of the Ritz and how the other hotel in that area had only 20 rooms booked. The Jack Nicklaus designed golf course out at the lake (not sure the name) was shut down and overgrown. And these are new properties that cost many tens of millions to open. The tourists are coming back in Vegas, it's the locals joints and downtown that are on the ropes from what I've heard.

For the work I was there doing, I was out in the city and away from the strip the whole of both days I was there, mostly in office buildings and such. So, I didn't really see how the off-strip locales you write about are doing, but I'll take your word for it as it is your business to know. I can see it though, because the lure of the strip must be hard to compete against. I wonder how much of the gaming business and subsequent gaming tax revenues can be attributed to the off-strip properties? Is it enough to make the car crash-sized dent we've seen in tax revenue, when considering how much better off the strip properties are...or is it the big hit the off-strip properties have taken and the small percentage of lost business the strip properties do, which to them is small, but to the state is huge?

[Nevadan]

Went to a presentation the other night by Steve Leuthold. Very informative and encouraging. Pointed out that people in Nevada aren't seeing the signs of the economic recovery like those in the rest of the country because so much of our economy is based on service and real estate. The recovery is not being led by the consumer it's largely being led by the manufacturing sector in the mid-west.

I'll try to post more later, they had some really amazing statistics.

My fear is that the recession has created a whole generation of people that are like those that lived through the depression. A frugality like that which was beat into that generation of people would mean dire things for gaming in Nevada if it came to be a part of the psyche of folks living hard times today.

[Stuck in Seattle]

My fear is that the recession has created a whole generation of people that are like those that lived through the depression. A frugality like that which was beat into that generation of people would mean dire things for gaming in Nevada if it came to be a part of the psyche of folks living hard times today.
More people are gambling than ever. The Indian casinos up here, while they've slowed a little, are still doing huge business...business that used to travel to Reno as much as Vegas. I don't see anything that would lead me to believe gaming is in trouble...there's just little need to travel to Nevada for most people. They've now opened casinos in WV, Florida, AZ, NM, CO, CA, WA, NY, OK, MI, CT, MA and many other states. Ohio may be next and as I have a lot of family out there I might consider relocation. But that's the trend. More gambling but more for nightly entertainment than as a destination/vacation activity. It's just easier and cheaper to drive 30 minutes or an hour than fly to Nevada.

[mr_pack]

I live closer to an Indian casino than vegas, and I love gambling. Gambling at and Indian casino just doesnt have the same zing so I dont gamble unless I am in Reno or vegas

[battle.borne]

More people are gambling than ever. The Indian casinos up here, while they've slowed a little, are still doing huge business...business that used to travel to Reno as much as Vegas. I don't see anything that would lead me to believe gaming is in trouble...there's just little need to travel to Nevada for most people. They've now opened casinos in WV, Florida, AZ, NM, CO, CA, WA, NY, OK, MI, CT, MA and many other states. Ohio may be next and as I have a lot of family out there I might consider relocation. But that's the trend. More gambling but more for nightly entertainment than as a destination/vacation activity. It's just easier and cheaper to drive 30 minutes or an hour than fly to Nevada.

And yet none of the non-Nevada properties offer the payouts of Nevada properties. Why people don't get incensed by this is crazy to me. The tribes are raping their consumers, and it's comedy to watch from afar. If you like to gamble, why would you gamble where odds are lower and your rights as a gambler are non-existent?

[Stuck in Seattle]

And yet none of the non-Nevada properties offer the payouts of Nevada properties. Why people don't get incensed by this is crazy to me. The tribes are raping their consumers, and it's comedy to watch from afar. If you like to gamble, why would you gamble where odds are lower and your rights as a gambler are non-existent?

For a while I tried capturing the smart gamblers. I offered the only single deck blackjack in Western Washington and liberal rules on the other games. I spent thousands in advertising to encourage gamblers to try our games. I explained that even the least experience player was better off playing a BJ game with fewer decks as there is a smaller disadvantage for even the worst players when fewer decks are used.

All that showed up were card counters and wannabe card counters. The average customer preferred 8 deck shoes with terrible rules in a big shiny Indian casino to a great single deck game in a smaller card room atmosphere.

We also offered Pai Gow Poker with no commission. At the Indian casinos you pay a 5% commission on every winning wager. The Pai Gow Poker tables at the Indian casinos remain packed with big betters.

The average gambler is an idiot.

[Nevadan]

And yet none of the non-Nevada properties offer the payouts of Nevada properties. Why people don't get incensed by this is crazy to me. The tribes are raping their consumers, and it's comedy to watch from afar. If you like to gamble, why would you gamble where odds are lower and your rights as a gambler are non-existent?

...sounds like you've found your calling....you can become the Ralph Nader for gambler/consumer rights.;)

[battle.borne]

...sounds like you've found your calling....you can become the Ralph Nader for gambler/consumer rights.;)

The Tribes are a lawless bunch of clowns. While being Nader is appealing in some ways, I might end up in a shallow grave if I pushed the wrong Feather buttons.

[Stuck in Seattle]

The Tribes are a lawless bunch of clowns. While being Nader is appealing in some ways, I might end up in a shallow grave if I pushed the wrong Feather buttons.
The games are run fairly at tribal casinos here in Washington. Why offer better games and higher payouts when you're making money hand over fist while offering games with 3 or 4 times the house advantage that you get in Nevada? And many games like Pai Gow Poker, Baccarat, Craps and Roulette have exactly the same house advantage in the Indian casinos as in the Nevada casinos. But the blackjack and slots (video lottery terminals actually) are terrible up here.