Anyone else surprised Colin isn't even getting a look from the NFL?

[oldballcoach]

After I saw Mel Kiper just moved Jake Locker up to #5 on the big board, it got me thinking since Kap is in the same class as Jake. Going into this season I would have been sure that Kap would have had the option to go top 2 rounds if he wanted to. Do you think the NFL is souring on him because of the offense? Personally I think he's a great prospect but he still must add good weight and keep his speed. Has anyone heard about Moch or Basped if they are leaving?

[buzzt14]

I think it has everything to do with the passing game right now. Colin is known as a mobile qb, ala Eric Crouch, to all of those unfamiliar with him, while the rest of us know he has an NFL caliber arm. Hopefully he will have a chance to make an impression next season with his arm, we were just so dominant on the ground this year we didn't need him to throw the ball, but when he did Colin was very good, especially with a very green recieving corps.

[unionman]

I am not surprised. My guess as to why he isn't getting much love from the NFL is because of his passing.

[furry]

Not being familiar with Mel Kiper, I looked him up on Wikipedia and found this.
"Kiper has established himself as the one of the most famous and recognizable of all NFL Draft commentators. He has played a major role in transforming the draft from a quiet meeting few fans understood or cared about into a major public event over the course of the last 25 years. Due to the unpredictability of the NFL draft and the eventual development of the players featured, he has, at times, been wrong about the pro potential of some players. However, his reputation as the top draft commentator in the business comes about because of accuracy, preparedness, and attention to detail when discussing players, their skills and weaknesses, as well as which team is a likely fit for them. One of his great predictions was saying when soon-to-be Georgia QB Matthew Stafford, who had just completed high-school at the time, would be the #1 overall pick whenever he declared for the NFL Draft. His remark was vindicated when Stafford was selected first overall in the 2009 NFL Draft. He is also known for his trademark gelled hair, which has often been the butt of jokes. Kiper and fellow ESPN draft expert Todd McShay often disagree with one another when it comes to mock drafts and player ratings".
I wonder what he would think if Kap were QB on a quick passing team, a QB who takes the snap from center and throws the quick slant, button hook or sideline pass. Kap's look would be different than it is now. Would Kap be a better passer if he were not reading whether to hand off or keep it before he looks for a receiver?

[NevadaConvert]

I don't agree that he's not getting a look by the NFL. Actually, the opposite is true. They've been following him for quite a while. It just comes down to his stock value, not if he's a pro prospect or not.

I do think another year of FBS woud do him wonders in terms of personal growth and his overall value in the draft. I'd actually like to see us pass a little more in the medium to long range. With our improving receiving corp, we should be able to do that. And that would help our running game even more when they have to respect the long ball. It wouldn't surprise me if Durant plays as a true freshman.

[Darth Kaepernick]

After I saw Mel Kiper just moved Jake Locker up to #5 on the big board, it got me thinking since Kap is in the same class as Jake. Going into this season I would have been sure that Kap would have had the option to go top 2 rounds if he wanted to. Do you think the NFL is souring on him because of the offense? Personally I think he's a great prospect but he still must add good weight and keep his speed. Has anyone heard about Moch or Basped if they are leaving?

Kiper has Bo at #6 in the class of 2011 behind Clausen, Locker, Bradford, Snead, and Keenum. Bo was #5 earlier in the year but Keenum passed him after week 2 after we had the stinker in ND and he had the big win @ Oklahoma St.

http://http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft10/insider/news/story?id=4479517

[LMoneyFresh]

I"m sure if Colin were in a more traditional offense, one where he would take snaps under center and be responsible for making different reads in the passing game, he'd get more attention from nfl scouts.

No knock on Colin, he's got a big arm and great mobility, but at this point he's too light, lacks the ability to read a defense in the passing game on all types routes (short, mid, long), and plays in a gimmick offense. Those are red lights for scouts, they want to see kids line up under center, make pre-snap reads on the defense and be able to deliver the ball quickly. Those just aren't things that Colin has to do in this offense. I think that his lack of prospects at this point have more to do with the offense he's in than his ability to be honest.

[student4ever]

Ummm...have I missed something? I've heard all year about NFL scouts interest in Colin. I don't know why the rest of you haven't. Does he need another year? Yes. He still has some stuff to show them, but he has all of the physical tools and they know it.

[geezer1]

He needs some passing numbers to make serious noise for the scouts, right now he's probably listed as "athlete". But, he's only a junior, he's got one more year to put up some gaudy passing numbers and move up the board.

[Stuck in Seattle]

CK already has far more yards and TDs with far, far fewer INTs than Vince Young had. Their junior years are actually quite similar but CK had far more TDs with less than half as many INTs. A big season would be nice, but mostly he needs to be more efficient while increasing his yards per attempt.

[oldballcoach]

Honestly, if I were in Kap's spot, I would have probably been testing the waters last year. I don't see any development in the reading/passing game since he got here. The way they ran the ball this season, I don't think there will be any changes to the game plan to open it up. Another year running the option is a waste of Kap's development and will only lead to injury. Obviously we all want Kap back, but if he can be a first day pick he should leave and get in a pro system asap.

[newpackcity]

Honestly, if I were in Kap's spot, I would have probably been testing the waters last year. I don't see any development in the reading/passing game since he got here. The way they ran the ball this season, I don't think there will be any changes to the game plan to open it up. Another year running the option is a waste of Kap's development and will only lead to injury. Obviously we all want Kap back, but if he can be a first day pick he should leave and get in a pro system asap.

A lot of people said the same about Pat White last year and it worked out okay for him...

[oldballcoach]

Ummm...have I missed something? I've heard all year about NFL scouts interest in Colin. I don't know why the rest of you haven't. Does he need another year? Yes. He still has some stuff to show them, but he has all of the physical tools and they know it.

I know what you are saying, and I wasn't oblivious to the attention he has gotten in the past. I am just surprised now that the season is basically over that we haven't heard any speculation and all signs point to Kap returning. Has that decision actually been made yet?

[oldballcoach]

A lot of people said the same about Pat White last year and it worked out okay for him...

That's an apples and oranges argument. During last season the NFL happened across the wildcat, and that no doubt saved the free fall he would have had the year before.

Colin is a prospect that needs to get into an NFL system with NFL QB coaches, unless he is planning to be a wildcat QB his whole life?

[newpackcity]

Colin is a prospect that needs to get into an NFL system with NFL QB coaches, unless he is planning to be a wildcat QB his whole life?

I agree with you on this, but I still think some work could be done on some of his passes to get him ready for the 2011 draft, I think with a stellar senior season is draft stock and do nothing but go up...

[oldballcoach]

I'm trying to think of a QB who came back for his senior season and it actually worked out. The list is longer of QB's who killed their stock by coming back, and it's the same with the NBA drafting college seniors. Look what happened to Brian Brohm? Guy was going to be a top 5 pick? Colt Brennan would surely have gone much higher, but a red-shirt senior from a "gimmick" offense in the middle of the road conference and they will look elsewhere.

I think anyone would agree that watches Colin now would say his potential is high, but he is a project. A project that would most likely be worth a higher draft pick now than in 2011 imo.

[newpackcity]

To be honest, I still think Kaep may get converted to a WR in the NFL, especially with his length and speed...

[oldballcoach]

To be honest, I still think Kaep may get converted to a WR in the NFL, especially with his length and speed...

At first I thought that was the most likely scenario, but I take Kap at his word that he is a QB and that's what he will play. He's too smart, too tall, and got too big of an arm for them to convert him unless he struggled badly.

If he they did covet him as a WR, wouldn't it make even more sense to leave now any way?

[LMoneyFresh]

At first I thought that was the most likely scenario, but I take Kap at his word that he is a QB and that's what he will play. He's too smart, too tall, and got too big of an arm for them to convert him unless he struggled badly.

If he they did covet him as a WR, wouldn't it make even more sense to leave now any way?

I'm sure since QB is Colin's natural position, that obviously what he would prefer to play, but if a team says they'll draft him and convert him and that's the only guarantee he gets, I'm sure he'll change his mind quick.

The thing is, to me, is that it seems Colin will be a project either way. If he's developed as a QB, he basically needs to learn a pro system from the ground up, and if he gets converted to a WR, he's going to need to learn how to run routes etc. That's why I think the longer he stays, the better. He'll be able to throw on another 10-15 pounds and hopefully get more attention with his speed. I just don't see how an NFL scout could be very excited about the type of offense Colin is asked to run. While it's effective in college, the skills he's picking up have next to no real benefit in a pro system.

[oldballcoach]

I'm sure since QB is Colin's natural position, that obviously what he would prefer to play, but if a team says they'll draft him and convert him and that's the only guarantee he gets, I'm sure he'll change his mind quick.

The thing is, to me, is that it seems Colin will be a project either way. If he's developed as a QB, he basically needs to learn a pro system from the ground up, and if he gets converted to a WR, he's going to need to learn how to run routes etc. That's why I think the longer he stays, the better. He'll be able to throw on another 10-15 pounds and hopefully get more attention with his speed. I just don't see how an NFL scout could be very excited about the type of offense Colin is asked to run. While it's effective in college, the skills he's picking up have next to no real benefit in a pro system.

I agree 100%, we just see the solution differently. If he needs to learn a pro system and techniques, or run routes, how is staying at Nevada longer going to be better? He will be pretty unstoppable, so you know every team out there will be like Maryland and try to get him hurt as their only chance. He should be able to add a good 5-10lbs before the NFL season don't you think? If I am a scout, I cringe at the offense and habits he will have and it's even more reason to want to take him now. Especially considering if he will have his degree by spring.

[LMoneyFresh]

I agree 100%, we just see the solution differently. If he needs to learn a pro system and techniques, or run routes, how is staying at Nevada longer going to be better? He will be pretty unstoppable, so you know every team out there will be like Maryland and try to get him hurt as their only chance. He should be able to add a good 5-10lbs before the NFL season don't you think? If I am a scout, I cringe at the offense and habits he will have and it's even more reason to want to take him now. Especially considering if he will have his degree by spring.

You make a good point. I guess he would probably have just as much an opportunity to put on weight and everything working with nfl trainers and having the resources available for a nutritionist and all that fun stuff. And if he's going to be a project and riding the pine for a year, he might as well get a head start on learning whatever position he's going to need to learn.

[oldballcoach]

You make a good point. I guess he would probably have just as much an opportunity to put on weight and everything working with nfl trainers and having the resources available for a nutritionist and all that fun stuff. And if he's going to be a project and riding the pine for a year, he might as well get a head start on learning whatever position he's going to need to learn.

I'm thinking a team like Oakland should be real familiar with him. I would bet they cut Russel and sign or trade for a veteran QB, then that opens the door to take Kap and start with some McFadden and Kap packages.

[Darth Kaepernick]

I think people really over-estimate the importance/value of the whole shotgun/pistol/spread offense vs a guy who comes out from an under center offense. It might be the difference between a couple of guys who have very similar characteristics and are really close in draft ranking. It's not going to be a huge deal for a kid like Colin though. If a team drafts him, they are drafting him based on the things you can't teach like height and arm strength and then I also believe when someone does draft him they are thinking 2-4 years away to develop him. The only reason I would want him to go 1st round is the $$ and pride part of it.

I look at Aaron Rogers now (time to develop) vs Alex Smith (no time). Look at Stafford getting beat up. Sanchez getting beat up. David Carr's career. Etc. If you are picked 1st round, you are usually expected to play right away. I don't believe there are very many guys who can do that.

Then again, I think a lot of the time the problem is that a team who is not very good is not very good because of the O-line. And typically a team with a high draft pick won't pass on a highly coveted skill player, so they aren't addressing the real needs of the team.

[backsthepack]

I agree Darth, he needs to come out of that Matt Hasselbeck, Tom Brady type mold where he backs someone up for a while before starting.

I'd still love him in Minny though :D

[NEVADAFan1997]

CK already has far more yards and TDs with far, far fewer INTs than Vince Young had. Their junior years are actually quite similar but CK had far more TDs with less than half as many INTs. A big season would be nice, but mostly he needs to be more efficient while increasing his yards per attempt.

Agree. I think efficiency, consistency and improving his touch (which comes with in-game practice) while increasing his ypa is what will improve CK's stock. This is a really difficult year to come out though, I think next year will be a better year for CK to be drafted (especially if he improves in the above categories).

[Wolfhomie]

Colin will play in the NFL as a qb. I find it funny that coming out of high school he was known as a passer and then he shows up at Nevada and gets the chance to showcase his running ability and now he is known as an "athlete." He will be fine and when the combine comes around and he works out as an independent he will go prior to the 2nd round. His passing numbers are a reflection of very good decision making and any passing skills he may be lacking can developed. If Jeff Rowe can make it, Colin's a no-brainer!

[battle.borne]

To L Money and OBC....how can you say the offense he runs in no way prepares him for the NFL? Colin is asked to make a multitude of audibles, has to throw on the run, know when to scramble, and moreover, several NFL teams are experimenting with the Pistol as an intriguing option for a mobile QB. You guys really need to look at the big picture a bit more. COlin might not read a defense at an NFL level yet, but every other trait that is required of a successful QB Colin possesses. And most importantly, IMO, Colin has the leadership qualities and intelligence to thrive in a complicated NFL scheme.

Jeff Rowe had no difficulty whatsoever in returning to a more traditional offense when he reached the pros. His issues were with his slower release imo.

[battle.borne]

If Jeff Rowe can make it, Colin's a no-brainer!

Yup! :rolleyes:

[LMoneyFresh]

To L Money and OBC....how can you say the offense he runs in no way prepares him for the NFL? Colin is asked to make a multitude of audibles, has to throw on the run, know when to scramble, and moreover, several NFL teams are experimenting with the Pistol as an intriguing option for a mobile QB. You guys really need to look at the big picture a bit more. COlin might not read a defense at an NFL level yet, but every other trait that is required of a successful QB Colin possesses. And most importantly, IMO, Colin has the leadership qualities and intelligence to thrive in a complicated NFL scheme.

Jeff Rowe had no difficulty whatsoever in returning to a more traditional offense when he reached the pros. His issues were with his slower release imo.

It's pretty easy for me to say the pistol in no way resembles what pro scouts want to see. Colin doesn't really make reads on what kind of pass coverage a team lines up in, it's obvious that this is a run first offense. Plain and simple, the pistol is a gimmick offense. It's just the same as scouts not looking too highly upon spread offense QBs.

Also the NFL doesn't want QBs who make their living throwing on the run. Every mobile QB that comes out struggles because teams want them to throw from the pocket, and outside of it if necessary. And I'm sorry to break it to you, but the pistol has no chance in the NFL, if the formation sticks with anybody, it won't last long or stay effective long, just like the wildcat. It's a gimmick, despite what you want to believe. It might be used as a change of pace, but no team will draft Colin high for the possibility of using him for a few plays.

You seem to misunderstand my statements as putting Colin down, which couldn't be further from the truth. He's a great player who does have a lot of physical attributes that will have scouts drooling. He's tall, long, shifty, deceptively fast, and has a big arm. But you overestimate his passing skills at this point. The NFL is built on QBs being able to make quick reads and to get the ball out quickly, and the pistol does next to none of that. The pistol has more to do with what I perceive to be a disservice to Colin's development. Most teams prefer a QB to play under center most of the time, and that's not what happens at Nevada. Sure it may be effective against some college teams, but the NFL is a different beast all together.

Plus even Jeff played in a more pass heavy offense when he was here, so that comparison doesn't really stick. Apples to oranges my friend.

[battle.borne]

Well L Money, if I misunderstand your comments it's probably because calling the Pistol a gimmick offense is dismissive. What does "gimmick" even mean? Because it's not a traditional formation it's a gimmick?

[newpackcity]

Well L Money, if I misunderstand your comments it's probably because calling the Pistol a gimmick offense is dismissive. What does "gimmick" even mean? Because it's not a traditional formation it's a gimmick?

Agree with that, because that would mean about 89.5% of offenses in FBS are gimmick offenses, a spread style offense is no gimmick, EVERYONE runs some form of it...

[Stuck in Seattle]

It's pretty easy for me to say the pistol in no way resembles what pro scouts want to see. Colin doesn't really make reads on what kind of pass coverage a team lines up in, it's obvious that this is a run first offense. Plain and simple, the pistol is a gimmick offense. It's just the same as scouts not looking too highly upon spread offense QBs.

Also the NFL doesn't want QBs who make their living throwing on the run. Every mobile QB that comes out struggles because teams want them to throw from the pocket, and outside of it if necessary. And I'm sorry to break it to you, but the pistol has no chance in the NFL, if the formation sticks with anybody, it won't last long or stay effective long, just like the wildcat. It's a gimmick, despite what you want to believe. It might be used as a change of pace, but no team will draft Colin high for the possibility of using him for a few plays.

You seem to misunderstand my statements as putting Colin down, which couldn't be further from the truth. He's a great player who does have a lot of physical attributes that will have scouts drooling. He's tall, long, shifty, deceptively fast, and has a big arm. But you overestimate his passing skills at this point. The NFL is built on QBs being able to make quick reads and to get the ball out quickly, and the pistol does next to none of that. The pistol has more to do with what I perceive to be a disservice to Colin's development. Most teams prefer a QB to play under center most of the time, and that's not what happens at Nevada. Sure it may be effective against some college teams, but the NFL is a different beast all together.

Plus even Jeff played in a more pass heavy offense when he was here, so that comparison doesn't really stick. Apples to oranges my friend.

I don't like the word "gimmick" because it implies that it's only worth is in a trick that only works because other teams hardly ever see it. But I get your point.

If we expected Colin to be a first round draft pick then playing the pistol does him a disservice. Not being under center is a negative, but not a huge one. He doesn't have to develop the traditional 3 step and 5 step drops and the timing that comes along with them. But since CK wasn't going to be a first round pick he wasn't going to be expected to start so he'll have time to learn if drafted. If he goes to the combine and his skills are sound he'll be fine. Or more than fine with his athleticism, speed and arm strength. He'll get drafted higher than Rowe IMHO and then he'll have to learn quickly.

As for reading defenses, I think he does do that. He calls a lot of audibles, the receivers are supposed to adjust their routes and he needs to read that as well. He has his progressions for determining where to throw based on coverage.

Where he needs improvement IMHO is better pocket presence: he tends to spin out of the pocket and run outside even when the pressure is from the outside. I think he could step up into the pocket while focusing on receivers more often and complete more passes by doing so. That could be due to not having total faith in some of the receivers this year. Well, that plus the frequency with which blitzers were able to come up the middle this season.

But I think he'll be fine.

[nyjets57]

The NFL and the NBA don't evaluate players by stats, competition level, W-L, etc..
They evaluate the player by their raw physical tools and capacity to expand them.
The NFL combine and the NBA workouts that the prospects perform at are the critical evaluations. The player's size, speed, jumping ability, quickness, athleticism, etc are what the scouts are looking for along with mechanics, reasonable level of intelligence, and competitive nature. They are looking for the upside and what level they can possibly expand to at the next level. If you have the raw tools and the right physical frame, the scouts will find you. Look at all the great QB's at the major schools that don't even get a sniff at the NFL. They are great in college because of the "system" that they are in. Being in the wrong "system" in college has little to nothing to do with your potential as a prospect. Players change positions from college to the NFL all the time, same in the NBA. IF you look at the top rushers, passers, receivers, etc. this year in college football, many are not anywhere near the draft board. Same holds true for scoring, rebounds, assists,etc for the NBA. If you have the "gift" they will find you!

[oldballcoach]

I think the bottom line is to play QB in the NFL he's got to improve touch and accuracy. The top NFL QB's are surgeons out there, you guys all know that. How does Colin get to the level he needs to be running or handing off 75% of the time?

[oldballcoach]

Jake Locker is staying for his senior season, surprising move. Colin really might now be better off going against the Dan Lefevour's of the world in this crop than waiting till next year.

[wolfone]

Disagree, Colin has not shown, to me, that he has the accuracy or touch to be able to enter the league now and be an immediate contributor. If he goes now, which he won't, he is a 5th-7th round draft pick, obviously depending on his combine position workout....not his measurables. He could sneak up to the 3rd round, but that is irrelevant. Next year, my question is, who are the other top QB prospects out there? Locker for one, but who else?

If it is a weak QB year and he has a stellar performance as a senior, he could work his way up VERY high...look at Stafford, he was NOT a very impressive QB at Georgia but worked his way up due to a horrible crop of QB's. IMO, Colin has been more impressive thus far...

[geezer1]

Wonder if Graz will get drafted this year? I could see him getting picked on the second day.

[gunslinger]

If I was Colin, I would ask Coach Ault and the NFL for a draft evaluation. Doesn't mean that he intends to enter the draft, but at least would have somewhat of an idea. I believe that no matter what year he enters the draft, he will be a 3rd-5th round draft choice. I say this because of the offense that he is in now, so it means he has to work on dropbacks, taking snaps from center, and reading defenses while dropping back. I don't think in the present system he is in would translate to a higher round choice. If you are selected in the 1st or 2nd round, you are expected to play immediately and I don't think that would be expected of Colin. Doesn't matter if he comes back or not. In some ways, he would be better off to get in the NFL now and work with them as a #2 or 3 guy in the pro system. He will most likely go to someone who has a starter and can wait to develop him. While Nevada's pistol has gotten him on the map, another year of 100-150 runs and getting hit doesn't help his draft position or risk of injury.

From what I have seen, Nevada won't throw the ball anymore next year and probably shouldn't. I am sure it is a very hard decision for the family. On one hand you feel very much dedicated to the system that put you on the map, but on the other hand you need to be a little selfish. If your goal is to get to the NFL, the decision to me is easy. By staying another year does it improve your position? In this case I would say no. If Coach Ault hasn't talked to Colin about it, he should.

I think NY Jets said it best. It is not about statistics in getting to the NFL. It is size, speed, character, smarts,and arm strength. Does he have them all? He can work on accuracy and touch with a professional team as well and maybe even more than with a running football team.
I am not saying that he should go out, just stating some things IMO that are real. Tough call I am sure.

I also think Graz will get a shot through free agency. If he wants, he will be in someones camp, but I don't think it will be by getting drafted. On the other hand, in his case I think it is better if it is through free agency because he can call where he goes which I believe will be in his best interest. Will be interesting to see if he gets a combine invite.

[boardr247]

I know you who this is directed at will probably no read or blow it off but I'll share anyways. Kap shouldn't go to the NFL this year. I think he'll be more successful if he gets one more year in. I don't know if anyone else seemed to notice but I saw him do more 3 and 5 step drops for some passing plays this year. It appears to me that Ault is prepping him for the draft next year. Obviously he's not there yet but there's a lot of progress he has made. I think much of his issue has been WR's(or other receiving positions) not catching/not catching with their hands.


And the whole pistol is a gimmick excuse is seriously retarded. Gimmicks are for Boise. Look at their PAT setup. But anyways, back to the discussion. Pistol might not be used in the NFL but a lot of the basics to it resembles pro formations. Actually, except the under center part you're almost identical to the ace formation or an offset I. Other than that you're taking a snap just like a shotgun formation but just a little shorter. And I don't think anyone would call the shotgun formation gimmicky either...

[battle.borne]

Colin still not getting any looks from the NFL.... ;)

Todd McShay on Colin (http://sports.espn.go.com/dallas/columns/story?columnist=caplan_jeff&id=4768708).

[oldballcoach]

Colin still not getting any looks from the NFL.... ;)

Todd McShay on Colin (http://sports.espn.go.com/dallas/columns/story?columnist=caplan_jeff&id=4768708).

My question is why aren't they looking at him this year if hes already 22 and has or will have a degree.

[LMoneyFresh]

Colin still not getting any looks from the NFL.... ;)

Todd McShay on Colin (http://sports.espn.go.com/dallas/columns/story?columnist=caplan_jeff&id=4768708).

Mcshay said exactly what we've been saying, that Colin isn't ready this year, and needs to work on his passing game more. He's no doubt got the size, speed and arm, he just needs to work on putting it all together now. The offense this year was absolutely one dimensional, doing no favors for Colin's draft stock. He needs to put up some good passing numbers next year to move up the boards, not average, but good. I think he could be a 2nd or 3rd rounder if he has a great year next year, but he won't get that high with just his feet, he needs to start showing off the arm and what's in his head.