R.I. town fires all high school teachers...

[Stuck in Seattle]

About 7 years ago the Marysville, WA teachers all went on strike for well over a month (even though it's illegal for teachers to strike in WA the governor and attorney general never do anything to stop this nearly annual northwest ritual) because they were going to have to work 188 days instead of 180. But of course...it's all about the children. Their average pay at that time was almost $60k per year. And they still work 180 days.

A school superintendent in Rhode Island is trying to fix an abysmally bad school system. Her plan calls for teachers at a local high school to work 25 minutes longer per day, each lunch with students once in a while, and help with tutoring. The teachers' union has refused to accept these apparently onerous demands.
The teachers at the high school make $70,000-$78,000, as compared to a median income in the town of $22,000. This exemplifies a nationwide trend in which public sector workers make far more than their private-sector counterparts (http://www.businessinsider.com/henry-blodget-the-next-crisis-will-be-a-tax-revolt-because-government-salaries-are-relatively-outrageous-2010-2) (with better benefits).
Link HERE (http://www.businessinsider.com/henry-blodget-unionized-rhode-island-teachers-refuse-to-work-25-minutes-more-per-day-so-town-fires-all-of-them-2010-2).

[wolf_chatter]

The Nevada teachers have a shitty Union! My brother-in-law has a PHD (yes a phd) and teaches the highest level of math and sciences at a HS in Reno, has 20 years in washoe and doesn't crack 60K. You have to be a Vice Principal I think to start clearing 60+.

But for me... they are paid exactly what they are worth.

[wolfin1]

Is it that time already! I thought the annual "teachers are overpaid and underworked" thread occurred after the basketball season?

[wolf_chatter]

Is it that time already! I thought the annual "teachers are overpaid and underworked" thread after the basketball season?

I don't think either. I think they are paid what they are worth. I do believe however they need to be held more accountable than they are currently for student success.

You pretty much have to molest a student to get fired these days.

[Slapdad]

Yeah but what is their salary when you annualize it? : )

Shhh.....don't tell anyone I said that. I don't need the sh!t storm it caused last time!!

[wolfin1]

I don't think either. I think they are paid what they are worth. I do believe however they need to be held more accountable than they are currently for student success.

You pretty much have to molest a student to get fired these days.

Teachers are not the real problem. The real problem rests with the teachers's supervisors and the school district. Supervisors need to be held accountable for the performance of their employees. Most CBAs, spell out the disciplinary process and actions that need to happen to remove an under-performing employee.

It's the supervisor's job to weed out the less-than-stellar or outright wrong suited for the job employees. School districts need to insure that adequate funding is available and that those funds are spent wisely.

Teachers have to walk the precarious line of teaching kids, following supervisor direction, dealing with parents (both the good and bad ones), while following pertinent laws and regulation.

Like any place of employment you have your good and bad employees, supervisors, and managers. What appears to be at issue (this year) is that teachers are public employees. The Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen, and Marines of the U.S. Military are also public employees. Yet we can't complain about under performance of a particular group about them. We don't blame soldiers for a failed mission (though the Army would) nor should we blame teachers for an under performing school. Administration and district level leadership need to take the blame and fix the problems as they occur.

[Stuck in Seattle]

Teachers are not the real problem. The real problem rests with the teachers's supervisors and the school district. Supervisors need to be held accountable for the performance of their employees. Most CBAs, spell out the disciplinary process and actions that need to happen to remove an under-performing employee.

It's the supervisor's job to weed out the less-than-stellar or outright wrong suited for the job employees. School districts need to insure that adequate funding is available and that those funds are spent wisely.

Teachers have to walk the precarious line of teaching kids, following supervisor direction, dealing with parents (both the good and bad ones), while following pertinent laws and regulation.

Like any place of employment you have your good and bad employees, supervisors, and managers. What appears to be at issue (this year) is that teachers are public employees. The Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen, and Marines of the U.S. Military are also public employees. Yet we can't complain about under performance of a particular group about them. We don't blame soldiers for a failed mission (though the Army would) nor should we blame teachers for an under performing school. Administration and district level leadership need to take the blame and fix the problems as they occur.
Everyone holds the teachers blameless, but they are not. Their union is just as much to blame and it is THEIR union. I totally agree that the administration is just as big a problem. Money, on the other hand, is not the problem. Paying teachers and administrator more money than ever hasn't helped education one bit.

[student4ever]

If someone can find it, I would be interested in seeing United States teacher salaries compared to other countries. For example, I've heard, but can't seem to find anywhere that Japanese teachers make salaries similar to baseball players in that country.

[wolfin1]

Everyone holds the teachers blameless, but they are not. Their union is just as much to blame and it is THEIR union. I totally agree that the administration is just as big a problem. Money, on the other hand, is not the problem. Paying teachers and administrator more money than ever hasn't helped education one bit.

Where are these people who hold teachers blameless? Teachers are getting most of the blame.

Of course its the teachers Union? Who else would it be?

If administration is such a problem...where is the outrage to hold them accountable? Apparently its easier to say teachers are the problem versus the overall system. When you look at the overall system...is it broke in parts? Assuredly so. Is it successful in other parts. Also assuredly so.

Blaming teachers is akin to blaming the machine operator or parts assembler at Ford for the Edsel. Did they participate in a failed project...sure...did they design said product?...no. Education is a very difficult job...if you don't think so....I challenge you to do it.

[NMpackalum]

Teachers are definitely not blameless. All my inlaws are teachers or principals so I hear the constant bickering between them. My father in law who is a principal at a local middle school went through all the appropriate paperwork with improvement plans etc. to fire a teacher and this teacher and the union circumvented all of this and the superintendant nullified the termination. This teacher readily goes around and tells students that he can't be fired and he doesn't allow the students to say the pledge of allegience because of his hard left political views and" they can't touch me". Parents just transfer their kids out.

My sister in law is the district faculty math instructor who previously defended teachers to the hilt and now has done a 180. The teachers are rude and disrespectful and refuse to do learn anything new. "They've taught this way for 20 yrs and aren't going to change." And obviously they don't have to change.

These are just 2 examples and are generalizations but they have no accountability. Sorry about the rant. With regard to pay, they may make 60k but they get a pension forever after certain years of service. Many of them go to different districts after 20 years and double or triple dip for pensions. I don't know about you but no one is giving me a pension.

[BustNChops]

Just 3 weeks ago my sister-in-law received a $2,500 check out of the blue. A bunch of her friends did as well. They had no clue why. It was discovered that they work at an "at risk school" and this is additional compensation.

I didn't know Wooster is an at risk school!?!?! I'm just guessing on this math... but if Wooster is an at-risk school, then there have to be 15 others in Reno/Sparks. How many teachers/others per school - 50? That is an easy $1.875-Million. So what is this total number for the entire State of Nevada?

I'm hoping you get a $2,500 bonus this year in your private sector job - for just doing your job!

[student4ever]

Just 3 weeks ago my sister-in-law received a $2,500 check out of the blue. A bunch of her friends did as well. They had no clue why. It was discovered that they work at an "at risk school" and this is additional compensation.

I didn't know Wooster is an at risk school!?!?! I'm just guessing on this math... but if Wooster is an at-risk school, then there have to be 15 others in Reno/Sparks. How many teachers/others per school - 50? That is an easy $1.875-Million. So what is this total number for the entire State of Nevada?

I'm hoping you get a $2,500 bonus this year in your private sector job - for just doing your job!

FWIW Chops, my wife, who is not a teacher but does work for the state, heard through the grapevine that the state is doing away with those bonuses for high-risk jobs. Motorcycle cops will no longer make extra for riding around on a motorcycle and will only get their pay grade pay, not the bonus. That's the only example I remember off the top of my head.

[BustNChops]

FWIW Chops, my wife, who is not a teacher but does work for the state, heard through the grapevine that the state is doing away with those bonuses for high-risk jobs. Motorcycle cops will no longer make extra for riding around on a motorcycle and will only get their pay grade pay, not the bonus. That's the only example I remember off the top of my head.

Not surprising. With the budgets they are facing, I have to imagine all that will be gone.

I was happy for her to get the $ as they really needed it in their new house... but the problem was the source of the money.

In my simpleton opinion... you pursue and take a job that you are interested in. Then in every job, you pay your dues. At some point, you are higher up the seniority ladder and have more ability to "move". If you chose not to, then that is a decision and you take the benefits/consequences in doing so. A motorcycle cops takes that gig because he wants it. There shouldn't be a spiff on top of it. For any of these jobs, pay what they are worth in a base salary. Don't create after the fact bonuses!

On a separate note, I couldn't believe the amount of "over time" that the Sheriff's office budgets for. It is a mix of special events (which are forecasted) as well as sick and vacation. Hundreds of thousands of dollars... you add that up for RPD, SPD, RFD, SFD and on and on... that is a boat load of money that is poorly spent because of poor business planning. They have gotten away with it for decades.

[Stuck in Seattle]

Not surprising. With the budgets they are facing, I have to imagine all that will be gone.

I was happy for her to get the $ as they really needed it in their new house... but the problem was the source of the money.

In my simpleton opinion... you pursue and take a job that you are interested in. Then in every job, you pay your dues. At some point, you are higher up the seniority ladder and have more ability to "move". If you chose not to, then that is a decision and you take the benefits/consequences in doing so. A motorcycle cops takes that gig because he wants it. There shouldn't be a spiff on top of it. For any of these jobs, pay what they are worth in a base salary. Don't create after the fact bonuses!

On a separate note, I couldn't believe the amount of "over time" that the Sheriff's office budgets for. It is a mix of special events (which are forecasted) as well as sick and vacation. Hundreds of thousands of dollars... you add that up for RPD, SPD, RFD, SFD and on and on... that is a boat load of money that is poorly spent because of poor business planning. They have gotten away with it for decades.
I know many, many members of Reno PD and their pay and benefits is astounding. As I've posted before, a friend of mine can retire about age 45 and will make over 7k a month for the rest of his life...plus benefits and COLA.

On schools, the teachers blame the admin, the admin blames the teachers, and they all continue to play the game as things get worse. It's the public employee way.

As for what teachers earn in Japan, how about what teachers earned in this country just 30 years ago? Real pay adjusted for inflation has approximately doubled with no improvement in education though they have better tools, smaller classes, more assistants, more administration etcetera. When plans are put forward that would pay the best teachers over $100k a year, the union always shoots them down because they include accountability measures. If there's one thing teachers don't want, it's their pay being related to their performance.

[NMpackalum]

Just think of the legacy costs with the current rapid expansion of government employees especially if healthcare is nationalized. Between the lifetime pensions and health insurance, tax payers potentially could expect to pay double the costs of original salary and benefits per employee.

[PackIzBack]

The Nevada teachers have a shitty Union! My brother-in-law has a PHD (yes a phd) and teaches the highest level of math and sciences at a HS in Reno, has 20 years in washoe and doesn't crack 60K. You have to be a Vice Principal I think to start clearing 60+.

But for me... they are paid exactly what they are worth.

Seems like with a PHD he should be teaching at a University? I think many University professors bring in 6 figures. I would imagine a PHD is virtually meaningless at the HS level as they can hire people without a PHD to do the same job?? Just speculating as I'm not really familiar with the industry, so correct me if I'm wrong.

[wolf_chatter]

Seems like with a PHD he should be teaching at a University? I think many University professors bring in 6 figures. I would imagine a PHD is virtually meaningless at the HS level as they can hire people without a PHD to do the same job?? Just speculating as I'm not really familiar with the industry, so correct me if I'm wrong.

past 2 years since he got it.. but it is Math and the Math dept. has been fully staffed I guess for quite some time.